INTERVIEW WITH SHAD: PART 1

Shadrach Kabango

Rapper and broadcaster.

This interview was conducted on Monday, April 6th, 2020 over Zoom with a large group of people from Solid State.

The interview has been lightly edited for clarity and significantly condensed for length. This is Part One of two and the full audio is available here.

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INTRO: Faaiz from Solid State and Open City Events: Shadrach Kabango born on July 18th, 1982, better known by his stage name Shad or Shadk, is a Canadian alternative hip-hop recording artist and broadcaster. He was born in Kenya of Rwandan parents, and raised in London, Ontario. His mother worked in London hospital as a medical lab technologist and his father as a machinist. Shad is bilingual, he can speak English and French, and has a business degree from Wilfried Laurier University and a Master's degree in Liberal studies from Simon Fraser University.

SHAD: I am in Toronto, so it's actually 9pm my time, so I have the night free, I am just chilling, and I am happy to be chilling with you guys. As far as a brief introduction to myself, yeah, my career started in making music, which is something that I still do and still love doing but in the last I would say 5 or 6 years it has branched out into other things so I've hosted this series Hip-Hop Evolution now in it's fourth season, I've been doing that for the last number of years, I also hosted a radio show called Q on CBC radio, so yeah, the last few years I've kind of enjoyed broadening my horizons a little bit but the core of my career has been in music, and continues to kind of centre around music. That being said, I have a range of interests, as you kind of heard in the introduction there, I studied business in my undergrad, I studied more philosophy and literature at Simon Fraser out in Vancouver, so I am happy to talk to you guys about anything you may be interested in, in my music, or in my other experiences, or your experiences. 

MATT: Sweet. Thank you. I am hoping you could actually just fill in a little bit about that last thing you talked about - your range of interests - and I guess there's a corollary question that I am hoping you can speak to, because more everybody in this call is a teenager. Often times teenagers hear that they should just focus in, get really good at one thing, obsess on something and get good at it. Do you agree, or do you think it's more valuable for people to have a broader range of interests and explore as widely as possible.

SHAD: That's a great question. The best way I can think of to answer that question is to start where I was at your age, 16, 17, 18. At that time, I really didn't have any serious interest in music. I liked music a lot, I was a fan, I didn't realize that I was more of a fan than maybe other people were, I enjoyed free styling, I played a bit of guitar, but it wasn't something that I took seriously. So that started to happen for me a little bit later. I finished high school, I went to university - so it was during that time that I got into music, and so, yeah, I guess all that to say that I am a big proponent of doing, especially when you are young, exploring many things, exploring wherever your curiosity takes you. Because you have the time, and you have energy and hopefully you have the opportunity, and I think that’s the best thing you can do for yourself when you are young is kind of create more opportunities for yourself. You don't want to close doors, I think, at your age. I think you want to open as many doors, and if you have the energy and if you have the enthusiasm for lets say three different things, then you probably have the energy for three different things and you have the time for three different things at your age so I am a big - I think that, that phrase you probably hear a lot from adults "what are you going to be when you grow up" that doesn't necessarily have to be one thing. 

MATT: But if you are going to get really good at something, don’t you have to obsess on something? 

SHAD: Yeah but I think that happens naturally. And I also don’t think that’s for everybody. Some people, that’s the way you’re naturally going to go. I think when I discovered a passion for music, I loved it in a way I didn’t love other things and it was easy for me to put a lot of time and energy into it and to focus on it. My sister for example is a totally different person she loves so many different things she could never become a specialist type of person. I consider her much more talented than I am and I say that truly not to be self-deprecating - she’s much more talented than me but she has like, she just loves so many different things whereas when I discovered music I was like “that’s my thing” and I poured all my energy into it. But I think that can happen quite naturally. I think you should keep your options as open as possible and you will naturally gravitate towards one thing then you will. 

DENZEL: Since we’re here, Whats up whats up whats up man? I don't’ know if this has been asked but what’s your kind of advice for any young up and coming independent artist that are maybe not like you know, discovered yet. 

SHAD: My advice would be to make whatever you’re passionate about making, let’s say that’s a podcast, let’s say that’s an album, let’s say that’s playing one show, commit, and focus on that thing and really commit to it. And don’t let other things get in your way. Or don’t let bigger questions of like “will I make it or not make it” don’t let that stuff get in your way. If you want to record an album, commit and focus on doing that. And then take the next step. I am a big believer in one step at a time, and committing to projects and seeing those things through and not getting hung up on bigger questions.

I remember when I was just starting out, my head was full of this question of like “am I am artist?” “am I going to be an artist?” and the easiest way for me to resolve that was just to say, “well that doesn't really matter but I know that I want to make an album right now and so, I am going to commit to doing that” and then I took the next step after that. So, that would be my advice to someone who is just starting out. Just take those steps, and don’t let anything get in your way. Even money, like in terms of a budget for recording or whatever, don’t let that get in your way. If you only have enough money for one session, then that will just change what the song look like or sounds like but just make your things. 

MATT: Can you speak to failure a little bit Shad? I am sure that you might have had the occasional failure or disappointment along the way. When you say, “just do stuff” - which is advice that I think sounds fantastic- but then you’re also speaking about failure. 

SHAD: Oh yeah. So, failure is so important. So, one important thing about failure is once you try and you fail, you realize it’s not that bad. That’s probably the most important thing about failure. I’ve stepped on so many stages, and I wasn’t good! And the audience did not think it was good, and I could tell, and I didn’t care! I had fun! And I think that’s such an important experience to have, Because that allows you to continue to try things.

People that are afraid of failure it’s because they’ve never experienced it and it’s not as bad often times as how much you love it. Like, I’d rather play a bad show than not play a show. So, I think that’s an important thing to realize.

And you learn so much from your failures. I remember the first organized rap battle I ever entered and I lost in like the first or second round. And nothing taught me more about rapping than that. What I learned in that battle was, cause I was trying to rap better than the other guy, and then I realized it’s all about the audience, it’s not about this other person. It’s about winning over the audience. I have to make them care about me, I have to make them like me more than they like this other person. So that’s just an example of just like the lessons you learn in failure. Not to say it’s great. I don’t want the first half of my answer to suggest that failure is awesome. No it sucks, you feel it, but you learn a lot from experience.

SYED: I kind of have a bunch of ideas that I want to do, but I find myself getting very flustered. Like how do you pinpoint what you want to work on, if look at all you options available to you and you are doing a bit of everything but you enjoy everything, how do you know which is the one you want to pursue if it doesn’t come to you? Because I am really passionate about a lot of things and I just want to try as many things as I want, how do you find that balance of kind of doing one thing and then moving on to the next project and then moving on to the next project?

SHAD: That’s a really good question because that is a very hard thing to do. There are a few different things to look at it, one great way of looking at it, is just kind of, well random, almost rolling the dice you know and you pick a thing, and the important thing is committing to seeing it all the way through. Whatever it is that you pick right? You can almost flip a coin and roll the dice if you really love the stuff, but then you commit to getting that done before you focus on other things.

Another way to look at it is just where do you have something to offer, where do you have something that can help? That’s sometimes a good way to look at the problem of “well I have all of these interests and all of this energy, what do I pour my energy into?” One good way of looking at it is “where am I needed? What would help the most?”

If you have a range of interests, I think that that’s really great. I think the important thing then becomes committing to actually seeing one thing through at a time.

VANESSA F:  Who has been your favourite person to interview? And why. 

SHAD: Ooh that’s a great question. There’s been so many, but I will single out a couple. So, it’s always great to interview someone that is genuinely a hero. I sat down with Q-Tip from Tribe Called Quest who is really like the forefather of the kind of music that I make, he is the reason why that’s possible. So that was a really special experience for me. Kool Herc would be another one in that vein he’s considered the godfather of hip-hop period. I stand on his shoulders.

And then, when I worked at the CBC I would sit down with a range of people, people that maybe didn’t influence me, but just getting to meet them and see how special they are. I think for example of Yo Yo Ma who is a great cellist, Harvard-educated I think he’s won 20 Grammys and then sitting down with him, he was like the goofiest, most fun-loving guy.

I love being surprised by people, and that was an example of someone just being a really pleasant surprise. But I am really a people person. I love meeting new people.

BIRAIMA: I don’t know if you listen to podcasts, but what's your favorite thing about a podcast and what is something you really enjoy from listening to people talk? 

SHAD: When I listen to podcasts it’s usually with my wife, we will wind down on a Tuesday night or a Sunday night we might throw on a podcast and just listen to two people talking. It’s funny, I was watching Seinfeld Comedians in Cars getting coffee and he was kind of joking with one of his guests, one of his guests was like “this is such a dumb idea for a show” and Seinfeld was like “I don’t know people love it, people just want to see people talk” and I think it’s true!

I think we are wired to just enjoy conversation. For my wife and I when we listen to a podcast, I think it helps us slow down for one thing, you just kind of listen to a conversation for an hour, we live in such a busy world, I think it just helps our brains slow down and get back to the natural pace of our thoughts and our relationship and it just helps us connect.

BIRAIMA: What would you say to your younger self, when you were a black youth, or is there something someone said to you when you were younger that stands out? 

SHAD: Well that’s a tough question to answer because I was lucky to have some role models that I think said the right things to me. So I will share that. One thing my mom always reinforced to me was like the idea that I don’t have to reinforce any stereotypes, and I don’t have to change any stereotypes. That’s not my job.

My job is to be a loving, caring person. And she would also say “you have every right to be normal.” You know, you have every right to be a regular person. You don’t have to achieve on some insane level, or anything like that. We expect you to be a loving caring person.

SINCERE: What was your inspiration for getting into the whole music industry and also because you did a documentary. How was that experience? 

SHAD: My inspiration with making music, well, that’s tough to describe because it’s just so natural. It was a thing that I discovered, once I started making music, it was this thing where I discovered that I cared so much if it was good, and I had never cared that much about things before. That was the biggest lightbulb moment for me, was with writing, and with making music, cause before that, you know, as a teenager I was in school obviously, I played sports, I hung out with friends, but there was nothing I really cared about.

When it came down to writing, when it came down to writing my rhymes and recording them, for some reason this thing turned on in my head where it had to be perfect and I would spend waaaaaay more time on it than anybody else that I knew.

So that was this lightbulb moment of ok this is probably something that I could get good at, because working at it doesn’t feel, not to say it doesn't feel like work but kind of, I had no choice but to work hard at it.

SINCERE: Ok that’s cool. 

SHAD: No problem. Your name is dope by the way. 

SINCERE: Thank you!

SARAH: I was just wondering, so you said you studied business during your undergrad at Wilfred Laurier, I was just wondering, because that’s kind of different from your career and what you are doing right now. Why did you choose that specific field, and do you think it really matters what you did in your undergrad? If you did something else would it have prevented you from getting where you are now? 

SHAD: These are great questions. So, why did I choose to study business? I had no idea what I was doing! I mean I was 18, I had to pick something to do, and so I picked business. I actually didn’t really have much genuine interest in it. But that’s how life goes.

And so that’s ok. I say that to say wherever you guys are at in your decision-making, if you pick the wrong thing, it’s not the wrong thing, it’s fine.

You are going to learn things no matter what. So, I think it was helpful. There were some things that have really stayed with me actually and not just specific things about finance or marketing but more general things about just how to work, how to think about strategy and business, and in life.

So it was all helpful. If I had to do it again, I wouldn’t change anything and that’s not because I liked studying business, I really didn’t like it at all, but even that was helpful! That helped me understand how much I actually liked music because I didn’t like business at all by comparison!

SADIE: I am working with the Daily Dose of Blackness crew, and we are starting up a podcast, and we are starting to, the first couple episodes have just been within the crew, and we are also thinking about starting to do interviews, and I am wondering if you can share with us some of your dos and don’t. 

SHAD: Yeah! That’s great. Well, one thing to think about always is who your audience is. Always ask questions that your audience would want to ask. Consider yourself a proxy for the audience. People love listening to podcasts, especially when the next question coming from the interviewer was the question on their mind!

You don’t have to ask anything brilliant. Just, the natural curiosity of whoever’s listening is where you should probably go. Questions that elicit stories are the best kind of questions. Asking about specific experiences, things that draw out specific experiences and specific stories. Philosophical questions tend to yield vague, philosophical answers. Specific questions tend to bring out real stories.

ANATI: I have two questions, one is: hip-hop goes through many phases, and each phase is representative of something. What do you think about this phase of hip-hop and who do you think currently impacts that? 

SHAD: Another good one. So, I think hip-hop is going into a phase where it’s going to go into many sub-genres. So the same way with rock music no one ever talks about “rock music” they talk about indie rock or punk rock or classic rock, you know, I think the same thing is about to happen with hip-hop because it’s been around for that long and it’s had that much influence.

Now we are going to talk about trap, and we are going to talk about classic rap. At awards shows we are going to have not just a rap category, but different categories. Because does it really make sense to put Lil Yachty’s album in the same conversation with Royce da 5'9" or Black Thought?

So many different people are driving rap. You have someone like Kendrick Lamar, what he achieves is something brand new every time. It tends to be something completely different. Who else is making something brand new? Some random 15-year-old somewhere. I mean we’ve seen that time and time again on Soundcloud or whatever the platform may be where some kid somewhere is coming up with a new sound. And so, that’s also going to be pushing the boundaries of what is going on in hip-hop.

ANATI: My next question is how is the hip-hop or black community in Toronto? 

SHAD: I think the black population in Toronto is something like 10% of the population - so it’s sizable here. The hip-hop scene has a long history going back to actually like the 70s. Toronto’s hip-hop scene is older than Atlanta’s, it starts earlier than a lot of places: it’s got a long long long history that travels forward all the way to Drake, who was a real turning point for hip-hop in Toronto and in Canada as you all know.

It kind of broke open the ceiling and now anything is really possible for hip-hop artists coming out of Canada and certainly out of Toronto. But the roots of the Black community and hip-hop in Toronto are extremely deep.

ANTHONIA: It seems like from an early age, you’ve had a fairly strong sense of self in terms of hearing the advice that your mom gave you. My question is around peer pressure and how that was growing up, and the role that friends have played in shaping either your career, moving it forward, or even pulling you back. Can you talk about how you choose your crew, because you surround yourself with amazing human beings? For young kids, it’s so hard to know who’s there for you and who’s not there for you.

SHAD: Well, you really are the people around you. You are the sum of the people around you. We like to think that we are autonomous individuals, we are our own people, we can do it on our own. No.

We are very simply the people around us. I really believe that. I am just the product of my family and my friends. That’s just the bottom line. So, if there’s anything you can control, it's’ who your friends are, so you do have to be careful about that.

You have to be careful about who you let in, and it should be people that you can be yourself with. You should pick friends that you can truly be yourself with. If you find that you have to change who you are to be around people, then those are not the right people.

That might be a hard thing to hear because that might be the only people that you have. So, it’s going to be a choice between loneliness and having some people around you, and that’s probably the hardest but most important decision you might make.